Episode 9: Paper on the Stage, Connection in the Heart feat. Professor Saiki, Yukari (English Edition)

Episode Description (English):

このエピソードの日本語版は2026年4月7日に公開されます。
A Japanese-language version of this episode will be released on April 7, 2026.

This episode begins with a brief story about KAMI-SHI-BAI 「紙芝居」 Japanese "paper theater" once performed on street corners with picture cards and dramatic narration, regarded as a predecessor to modern manga and anime.

Then, former professor Saiki Yukari of Tokai University shares insights from her experience teaching Japanese to international students through performance-based methods.

Saiki-sensei explores innovative ways to adapt this heritage art form and other performance techniques to empower learners, foster collaboration, and build confidence in the classroom.

Part 1: A story of kamishibai (paper theatre) told by Darren Kinsman (00:14–02:20)
A short historical tale introducing this iconic Japanese storytelling tradition.

Part 2: Saiki-sensei's background (02:30–09:24)
An overview of Saiki-san's journey, from her education and teaching career to her involvement in performance in education.

Part 3: Turning kamishibai (Paper Theater) on its head (09:25–15:00)
Discover how Saiki-san flips this classic storytelling medium from passive viewing to active, student-led creation.

Part 4: Summary of a report on a drama project (15:00–23:10)
A clear overview of a drama-based project, with key takeaways on integrating performance into language curricula.

Part 5: Workshop in Bordeaux: collaboration reduces the distance between participants (23:10–25:19)
Reflections on her collaborative workshop in France, demonstrating how group performance activities bridge interpersonal gaps and enhance group dynamics.

Part 6: Ideas for teachers (25:20–29:39)
Practical, ready-to-use suggestions for educators to incorporate kamishibai-inspired activities, drama, and performance elements that promote agency, engagement, and reduced anxiety.

Whether you're exploring performance in language education for the first time or seeking fresh ideas, this episode offers grounded, classroom-tested inspiration.

Please see the links below for resources related to this episode.

Professor Saiki Wins National Speech Contest
https://www.u-tokai.ac.jp/news-section/46582/

Japanese Drama as a Theatrical Project (PDF)
https://www.u-tokai.ac.jp/uploads/2021/03/11.pdf

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please like and leave a review. To learn more about the Performance in Education SIG, check out our website:

https://jaltpiesig.org/

Have questions or want to get involved? Reach out to us at pie.sig.podcast@gmail.com.

To access other high-quality JALT podcasts, go to JALT CALL (Computer Assisted Language Learning) Podcasts on Soundcloud!

https://soundcloud.com/jalt-call

For tips on how to cite these episodes using APA 7th edition, use the link below:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uLVARUdviigboSQXkJXfgNm0zNkMsal6brBvwpmTKWM/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please like and leave a review. To learn more about the Performance in Education SIG, check out our website. 

https://jaltpiesig.org/

Have questions or want to get involved? Reach out to us at:

pie.sig.podcast@gmail.com.

To access other high-quality JALT podcasts, go to JALT CALL (Computer Assisted Language Learning) Podcasts on Soundcloud!

https://soundcloud.com/jalt-call

For tips on how to cite these episodes using APA 7th edition, use the link below:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uLVARUdviigboSQXkJXfgNm0zNkMsal6brBvwpmTKWM/edit?usp=sharing

Intro & Outro song: Unlock Me (Royalty free)

Music by Kontraa Studio | UKA Music Publishing LLC

Transcript

Intro

Darren 0:00

Do you want to make your lessons more engaging and meaningful? Then join me on the PIE SIG Podcast with Darren as we explore performance in education with passionate teachers who bring it to life in their classrooms.

A Story about Kamishibai

Darren 0:14

The year is 1933. A shabbily dressed man named Goto-san pulls his bicycle to the curb. Strapped to the back is a wooden stage, two doors on the front and a slot in the back for colorful pictures. He takes a Syoshiki, two pieces of wood joined by a decorative cord, and bangs them together. Clack, clack, clack, clack, clack. From every direction, children come running, coins at the ready. For most of them, this is the only show in town. Closer than the cinema and much cheaper. A few years earlier, the police had swept the streets clean of the old style performers, the ones with big standing cutouts who dared to charge money for the performances directly. But Goto-san and thousands like him found a clever trick. Bolt a narrow stage to a bicycle carrier so you can vanish if a policeman appears. And instead of selling tickets, which needed a license nobody had, sell a single piece of cheap candy, which gave the buyer the right to stand right up front and watch the story unfold. Goto-san slides the first bright card into place, slowly opens the little doors, and transforms from candy seller to storyteller. With his narrative skills and his brightly colored images, he captures the attention of his young audience. At the moment the children desire more, he bellows out, " To be continued tomorrow, children, to continued". "Is it finished already?" They moan. Goto-san packs up, hops on his bicycle, and pedals away to the next neighborhood. For thousands of unemployed men in those hungry depression years, that was daily life. The older generation in Japan may remember this form of entertainment before television brought it to an end. However, one can still find educators using this form of theater as a teaching tool. Saiki-sensei is one of those teachers and we'll be talking to her about this and other performative approaches that can enhanse learning in general and language teaching in particular. Saiki-san, welcome to the podcast.

Saiki-sensei 2:29

Thank you, Darren.

Darren 2:31

So let's start from the beginning. Where were you born and raised?

Saiki-sensei 2:35

I was born in Yamanashi.

Darren 2:38

How long did you live there?

Saiki-sensei 2:40

Till I graduate my high school.

Darren 2:43

And what did you do after high school?

Saiki-sensei 2:46

I entered Tokai University.

Darren 2:48

Where's Tokai University?

Saiki-sensei 2:49

Tokai University is a big private school. They have uh from Hokkaido to Kyushu, but um my campus was in Kanagawa. And actually I'm working there. I finished my 10-year job and then now I became part-time. I teach Japanese once a week in Shizuka campus.

Darren 3:14

Okay. So when you were in junior high or high school, were you involved in any debates or speech clubs or plays, theater, anything like that?

Saiki-sensei 3:23

Not special club, but I participated in the speech contest when I was a junior high school.

Darren 3:33

When did you become interested in education?

Saiki-sensei 3:37

In Yamanashi, there are not so many selections to choose jobs. So I thought when I was a high school, I will be an elementary school teacher.

Darren 3:52

Okay.

Saiki-sensei 3:53

And I have a sister, so our family, only two girls. So elder girl should save the family. So in the future I will get married, and he changed the family name to Saiki, and then we keep our family, and we have a rice field and a vegetable garden. During the week, we have a job, but uh weekends we just be the uh uh farmer. So that was my dream or my goal.

Darren 4:30

Right. I see. What would what did you study at university?

Saiki-sensei 4:35

English literature.

Darren 4:37

Did you enjoy it?

Saiki-sensei 4:39

I hated uh grammar because I couldn't understand, and I didn't like uh sound system, uh and but I I liked the story or reading books.

Darren 4:54

So instead of becoming a school teacher, you decided to continue on with your MA.

Saiki-sensei 4:59

Well, MA was a different story because uh first I entered the English literature as master. So fortunately, I could get a job just after college and I started to teach Japanese to international students. But my English ability was not good at that time. I'm still learning. But when I teach Japanese, I was thinking I need more knowledge and then also I need the experience to be a good learner by myself. So I decided to enter MA course.

Darren 5:48

How did you find that? Was it interesting?

Saiki-sensei 5:51

Yes and no, because uh I really I had a kind of allergy for the English grammar and then the sound system, but if you don't take those or pass, you can't get a degree.

Darren 6:08

I see. So just so I understand, you were doing your MA and teaching at the same time? Yes, yes, because that must have been difficult.

Saiki-sensei 6:16

Yes, because that was a night school.

Darren 6:18

I see.

Saiki-sensei 6:19

So after the school, I rushed to the Tokyo and took the class.

Darren 6:25

When did you start using kind of dramatic or performative activities?

Saiki-sensei 6:31

That was a long time ago when I took the workshop of the Suggestopedia.

Darren 6:38

Okay.

Saiki-sensei 6:39

Georgi Lozanov came to Japan and he had a workshop. He was not the facilitator, but uh there is a lady and he was observing our workshop, and sometimes he answered our question. Then that workshop was so interesting because the situation was uh we are selected as an actor and we are going to make a wonderful movie, and we choose our name and our occupation, and we start like a drama song and games, and so interesting uh workshop. Then I wanted to use in my class too.

Darren 7:32

Sometimes it's easier for students to talk in another language if they're pretending to be someone else. You know, if I say to you, uh Yukari, you are you are Superman, okay, and you're going to have a conversation with this bad guy, that might be easier for you because now you are Superman and you're not Yukati anymore. So I'm thinking that's right, that's right. It's kind of a mask, right? Helps you.

Saiki-sensei 7:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you make a mistake, that's not your mistake.

Darren 7:59

Yeah, that's Superman's mistake. Yeah.

Saiki-sensei 8:01

That's right. That's right. Yeah.

Darren 8:03

Superman, what's wrong with you, right?

Saiki-sensei 8:05

Yeah.

Darren 8:06

So how did you discover the PIE SIG?

Saiki-sensei 8:08

I didn't know for a while, but uh when I read the the schedule and one time of the maybe like a national conference, and then I found that SIG, so I joined the workshop.

Darren 8:25

When you were a bit older, when you had finished your studies, you entered other speech contests. Yes. And one was the ITCJ National Speech Contest. Yes. And I heard that you won that two times, is that right?

Saiki-sensei 8:40

That's right.

Darren 8:41

Why did you want to enter the contest?

Saiki-sensei 8:43

Because uh I'm a the member of ITCJ, and the uh that is the develop your skill over leadership and also communication skills. And every year you have to make a speech, and that's the level is a club level and the council level and legion level.

Darren 9:12

Okay, so that that's good to know that you were also involved in some type of pie activity on your own. So now I'd like to switch to the topic that we started off with at the beginning of the podcast, and that's Kamishibai, which can be translated as Japanese paper theater. Can you tell us how you came to know Kamishibai?

Saiki-sensei 9:35

When I was a child, I saw the kind of Kamishibai Ojisan, and then also when I was in kindergarten and then even elementary school, teachers used the frame of the boy.

Darren 9:52

Yeah, for people who who don't know about it, it looks it looks kind of like a picture frame, but it has little doors on the front, and then there's a place in the back you can slide in large pictures.

Saiki-sensei 10:02

You slide the paper and put the uh back, and then there is uh text.

Darren 10:10

Right.

Saiki-sensei 10:10

So you can read it.

Darren 10:12

So you've got this large picture and you slide it into the frame so everyone can see it from the other side, and on the back of it you have the text that the teacher can read.

Saiki-sensei 10:21

Yes, yes.

Darren 10:22

I see. Okay, so how did you use it in your classroom?

Saiki-sensei 10:25

So usually if you use Kamichiba in the class, the teacher tells the story, but in my class it's the opposite. Students create and tell their story, not teacher.

Darren 10:40

So you had to explain what it was first, I suppose.

Saiki-sensei 10:44

I ask students, draw the picture about the certain theme, and they think about the story. Then they brought the pictures present in front of the class. Your hometown. So they draw their picture of the scenery, your favorite place or family, or like uh mountains or river, and they brought the picture and explained what what's going on. And also, for example, after the presentation, usually audience ask questions to the uh the presenter, but many students were thinking about their own presentation. So they don't listen, unfortunately. So now the presenters ask the audience questions. So they they presenters think about uh three questions about content. Then they ask the audience. That means everybody has to listen.

Darren 11:57

Right.

Saiki-sensei 11:59

And they answer the question.

Darren 12:01

Okay. So if I wanted to do this with my students, first I would have to buy this frame, and then I would maybe I wish I should buy some pictures too, so I can show them how it works.

Saiki-sensei 12:12

So you can draw the picture. I think, are you a good uh painter?

Darren 12:17

No.

Saiki-sensei 12:18

That's good. Because uh your picture is so strange, they laugh and then they feel safe.

Darren 12:25

Well, they're gonna feel very safe in my class.

Saiki-sensei 12:29

Because, oh, that kind of picture is okay, then mine is uh better.

Darren 12:35

Right. So I need to buy the frame, I bring it into the classroom. Should I explain what it is or should I just draw my picture and show them?

Saiki-sensei 12:43

First, you can show the example.

Darren 12:46

Right.

Saiki-sensei 12:46

You can tell a story, and then now you do the same thing. Drawing is uh sometimes you can't understand. So that is very good because straight picture, everybody looks and they try to understand.

Darren 13:02

Right.

Saiki-sensei 13:03

And maybe just uh the people ask you, what's that? What is that? So that's a really good negotiation or conversation or question, and then answer happens.

Darren 13:15

Interpreting the image and explaining the image. I see. Okay. So what ages did you use this with? Like young, young people or university students?

Saiki-sensei 13:26

Basically college students, but sometimes international students, like uh nearly 40 or more.

Darren 13:34

And they they were okay with that?

Saiki-sensei 13:36

Yeah, yeah, they are okay.

Darren 13:37

And you had just one frame and everyone shared the frame?

Saiki-sensei 13:40

Usually one frame.

Darren 13:42

Right.

Saiki-sensei 13:43

I just use the one frame. If you have like a 10 student, maybe it's finished in like a 90 minutes or more, you can have uh time, you can shuffle the cards, and they choose the picture, then they create the story. That's very interesting because the most good listener is the person who draw the picture, because the learner knows about everything, so they ask questions. Actually, he or she knows already, but they they want to ask because uh how the presenter answered the question.

Darren 14:26

Okay. Did you ever record it, like video record their presentations?

Saiki-sensei 14:31

No, do you?

Darren 14:32

I get them to record themselves. So sometimes, like if I have two students paired up giving a presentation, one will hold the other person's phone. So they they get their own recording and the other person doesn't.

Saiki-sensei 14:45

Not for for teachers, but uh for students. Yes, yes, I let them to do that.

Darren 14:50

Right. Okay. So let's talk about your article, ngeki Project O Toshite no nihongo geki.

Saiki-sensei 14:57

English title is a Japanese drama project from classroom to the theater 2019.

Darren 15:04

Okay.

Saiki-sensei 15:05

And it's the University Britain, and that's a report. In this report, I introduced drama project in Japanese class at Toka University. In my class, uh, I wrote short script, and the students added their own ideas and in scenes. In the project, I, the teacher, played some roles: script writer, director, and manager. And students became actors and co-writers because they are the scenery or the more play. So in this class we focus on two things. First, students work together, think, learn through drama. Second, students perform for an audience. So they practiced acting and presentation skills.

Darren 16:15

How important was acting skills?

Saiki-sensei 16:18

The definition of acting for me is um, for example, when you're sad, the audience should know he or she is uh looks sad. And if you're angry, we should know they are angry. The kind of uh expression is uh acting, I think. So if you don't look like uh angry or sad, we we're terrible. We don't we don't see that. So could you try again? Or we just kind of uh try to example or other students try to do that. After the course, we have a chance to show in front of the people, not only in the class, but for example, the we have a speech contest and there is a time after everybody had a speech, then judge left the other room to discuss who's the winner or something. Then we have 10 or 15 minutes. At that time we show our play. So that's the theater play, not like drama or process drama in the class. So if we show to the uh audience, we really have to be kind of uh attitude, not like shy and then laughing. No, we we of course we are not professional, but the mind is like a professional mind. Before I try to gather the audience for their only performance, but it's very, very difficult. But if you go just like how do you say hijack or bus jack, theater jack, we uh go to the speech contest because uh the audience is already there because they come to listen to their speech, but they have time, so our students go and then show their performance. That's very useful because uh it's already there, a hundred people, but it's very difficult to ask hundred people to come to our play. Last year we used the samurai Shimizu no Jirochō, the gangster in Shimizu, that's the uh kind of hero in Shizuoka, and we used the ham and made the drama. But uh there are only four guests, but the students are twelve. So last year other students are just uh holding the things and didn't involve the play.

Darren 19:27

Yeah, I was a Christmas tree.

Saiki-sensei 19:32

Did you enjoy it?

Darren 19:33

No, no.

Saiki-sensei 19:34

and then this year I changed that the one cast, but the actors are five. Five actors frighten one person.

Darren 19:48

How did you do that?

Saiki-sensei 19:50

We kind of symbolized each cast, like uh for example, Shimizu no Jirochō, he's a main cast, he wears Chomage uh wig. And then after one scene, he gave the wig to the other students. That students wear the wig. So it looks totally different. Of course, that's a different person, but the symbol, then you can see, oh, that's the main cast. And also the beginning of the play, I explain. So please, audience, understand there are five, but uh when you see the wig, that's the symbol of the Jirochō. And then also I asked the students, how can we make more easy for the audience, not wondering who is he, not different guy? And then they said uh, okay, we didn't wear kimono, but uh we wear black shirts and then black pants, that's uh main character, and the mood, the character should be like this, and they use the kind of deep voice. They they they discuss and then decide to do that. And also uh mother, there are two mothers, uh they wear a Japanese towel on their head, that's also symbol. Then in that case, ten students can involve also like a ballet, right? You know, ballet theater, when the prim uh the uh ballerina come and then uh disappear, the audience clap.

Darren 21:41

Right.

Saiki-sensei 21:43

It's same things happen. The after one scene, each scene they clap. Uh means uh okay, this is his thing and it's over, and he did a good job. The kind of uh uh sign. So it's very interesting and I liked it.

Darren 22:04

You have a lot of experience with it, so you're far down the road. But a lot of teachers listening to this are not down the road that far. So how can they start with a little step?

Saiki-sensei 22:16

The teacher needs to show positive acceptance. I believe the teacher's job is to create a safe and open atmosphere. So then, for example, some students share ideas easily, but uh others feel shy. Sometimes they won't come to your class because if they really are afraid of the things. In this situation, teacher modeling can be helped.

Darren 22:54

Okay, I see. So yeah, it's very important to have that kind of welcoming environment, isn't it? I wanted to move on to Bordeaux, France, because I know you did a presentation there, and I also studied French there when I was younger. So I'm quite interested to know what your presentation was about.

Saiki-sensei 23:12

I had a chance to lead a workshop. The workshop was a part of the Japanese teachers' symposium 2015 in Bordeaux. Japanese language teachers joined my session. In the workshop, the teachers worked in small groups and made a short story. Then they shared it, just like from students do. After the workshop, I listened to the teacher's reflections. One teacher shared something very interesting. She said during the workshop from creating the drama to performing it, she felt the distance between strangers became smaller. She explained that communication during the activity felt natural, not because the goal was communication, but because it happened through making something together. She also said when we create something together, communication is not forced. It becomes real and meaningful. And hearing these comments reminded me, language learning is not just speaking about something. Sometimes the most natural language happens while doing something together.

Darren 24:53

Do you think Japanese students are more comfortable doing things together like that in a group?

Saiki-sensei 24:58

Yes. Yes, I think so.

Darren 25:00

Did you find that it worked well with your forum students?

Saiki-sensei 25:03

Yes. Do you have any questions?

Darren 25:07

Yeah, I would just ask if you have any ideas for teachers who want to try PIE activities, please share. Just simple things. For example, like if you're doing a role play from a textbook, you know, giving them different names or using the students' own names, making up some background on the characters in the textbook, trying to bring some life to the textbook, and then acting out with emotion and gestures, things like that.

Saiki-sensei 25:32

I divided in small group, and I let the students discuss about the situation and create the uh story. And first show is a non-verbal show. Only gestures.

Darren 25:50

Like a pantomime or something like that.

Saiki-sensei 25:53

And when I say, okay, the preparing time is over, now you act in front of them, and then usually they say, Hey, we need more time or something, but uh I say, You don't worry about that. You don't have to speak, just this year. And they say, Hey, wow, okay, we can do that. Then they do that. But uh usually the audience, they don't know what's going on. Each group finished the performance. When the last group finished, I say, Okay, now you can speak. And they say, eh, they already did uh kind of embarrassing things in front of the people. So their shock or shyness is kind of reduced. The last group did the speak using uh verbally and then also uh gesture and the audience and then ah now we understand what's going on. Then like a five, four, three, two, one, they do that. And if we have time, I will ask the actors, you tell what's going on in this situation. And they tell the story.

Darren 27:18

So like a narration.

Saiki-sensei 27:19

That's right, narration or summarized. And sometimes the students told a totally different story about the the before that's the scene or after the the scene, and then just the students create new story. That's also very, very interesting. And then even the groups they said, we didn't know that.

Darren 27:47

I think that's a great idea. I know in some of my classes when we do presentations, I I have the students just go to the stage and do silent presentation in groups. So they all are standing on the stage and then just mouthing their presentations without using their vocal cords. And that allows them to feel kind of what it's like to be on the stage. And then when they do go up and actually speak, that's not not so stressful. Okay, Saiki-san, that brings us to the end of the podcast. It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much for talking about Kamishi Bai and for sharing with us some of the things that you do with your students in your classes, especially the idea of you know, starting off simply or low stress and building an environment where the students want to come and want to share and want to do things together as a group. And I think all of these things have been very beneficial, and I think a lot of the listeners will be able to use them in their classrooms. So thank you very much for coming in. We're going to also have a second version or second part of this podcast that's going to be done in Japanese. Please tune in for that. So, anyhow, Saiki -Sensei, thank you very much for coming in.

Saiki-sensei 29:09

Thank you, Darren-san.

Darren 29:11

Take care and good luck with your teaching.

Saiki-sensei 29:13

Thank you. You too.

Darren 29:14

Bye bye.

Saiki-sensei 29:15

Bye bye.

Darren 29:17

Thank you for listening. Until next time, stay focused and keep performing.